Often, we'll get asked whether there is silicone in our products. It's a particularly loaded question because the person asking the question is 1) probably brainwashed and 2) never going to entertain any answer other than 'no'.

What they really mean to ask is whether the products are 'bodyshop safe'.

OK, so let's start with silicone and we'll move on to 'bodyshop safe' later.

SILICONE

Essentially, almost everything in the detailing product world that makes something shiny contains silicone. It's all around. Shampoos have it, polishes have it, waxes have it and sealants ARE it. That's right. All the sealants you see the fanboys raving about are most likely to be pure silicone polymers, amino-modified silicones etc. We even tested a very expensive 'natural' wax and found it drowning in silicone. They are that prevalent you have to assume most products have them in, but also that many manufacturers may cover the fact their products have them in (either for reasons of product confidentiality, or because they worry silicone has a bad press).

Silicones not only add gloss, but they can be water repellent, encapsulate dirt if used in waterless washes, improve workability and buff-ability and are generally pretty damn clever. In fact, people LOVE silicones without even knowing it. It's why some shampoos tend to 'add something' (when you dry with a cloth, you buff the silicone to a shine!). It's why waterless washes and shampoos can feel nice and slippery. Why plastic trim products look so glossy. And it's why quick detailers tend to be the finishing touch for many people after they have washed their car...

So why the bad press?

Well, it stems from bodyshops in the 70s when silicones first came into widespread use.

The early silicones tended to be oil based and were often aerosolised. Being air borne, they could land everywhere and anywhere - and if the landing pad was a spraybooth or prepped car - havoc would reign. Being oil based meant they were tricky to remove, and if you missed even just one silicone molecule on your prepped panel, you could get a 'fish eye'... ie the paint wouldn't 'take' and you'd get a round dimple that would require the paint being removed and reapplied.

Naturally, silicone became the bodyshop's sworn enemy.

There were also some products that contained silicone that reacted badly with rubbers, and even the general motoring community started to distrust or even fear them. Everything had to be 'silicone free', but all the car care industry really did was change the silicones they used and stop mentioning them in the marketing!

BAD SILICONES

Anything in a spray or aerosol has the potential to be a 'bad silicone' IF YOU HAVE A BODYSHOP. For the rest of us, it makes no difference. Bodyshops should be prepping the panel before spraying first, to remove any wax, silicone or otherwise 'slippery' contaminant that will prevent paint from bonding. That's right. Regular beeswax, olive oil, Castrol GTX, KY Jelly or even fingeprint grease can cause fish eyes. It doesn't have to be silicone, but silicone WILL fisheye.

Oil based silicones can be enduring and give good durability, but they can be tougher to remove, requiring extensive solvent wipedowns. Weak IPA (isopropyl alcohol) may not shift them at first. You need a couple of STRONG solvent wipedowns.

If you use cheap products with nastier silicones in, you may find that they are not as easy to remove. Some quick detailers will turn buffing cloths WATER REPELLENT. Some shampoos or waxes applied at the rinse or washing stage, may also contain silicone that turns drying towels WATER REPELLENT. They become water repellent because when you wash the towels in your washing machine, the detergent is too weak to remove the silicone. So don't blame your cloth. It's just textile. See what you're saturating it with!

GOOD SILICONES

Most 'bodyshop safe' products contain what I am loosely terming 'good' silicones. These tend to have all the advantages of their earlier counterparts, but none of the disbenefits, problems or issues. So really the original question should be, 'does this product contain 'good or bad' silicones.

These good silicones could be water based, thus making them easily removed from buffing cloths or drying towels.

Or they could be oil based, like some 'bad' silicones, but simply delivered in a different way. Any liquid or paste product will generally be good to use because the silicones can't float away in the air. They are contained locally to where the product is. So if you apply the product next to a bodyshop, NO PROBLEM. The sealant can't float off the paint into the booth, like an aerosol based product. Believe it or not, household furniture sprays tend to be the worst 'bad silicone' offenders...

'BODYSHOP SAFE'

So now we're onto 'bodyshop safe'. This doesn't necessarily mean silicone free! It just means that the good silicones are in force, ie easily removed and/or non-aerosolised. So compounds that bodyshops work with near the booth, or even in it, could have silicone in. But it's contained in the product. The compounds and 'final stage' quick detailers used by bodyshops may also contain silicones to 'fill' the finish and make it look great.

'NATURAL' PRODUCTS

I have made a 100% TOTALLY natural wax product and guess what? It didn't really work. We favour modern solvents and *some* synthetic ingredients to bolster the natural ingredients we also use. In recipe terms it makes our waxes, 'substantially natural'. All products need a shot in the arm to perform for today's consumers. The products that claim not to contain these artificial additives generally perform way below par or the label's been telling porkies. If something performs way better than it should for a '100% natural' product, let us put it to an Infra Red Spectrometer test... it shows the presence of silicone very clearly. And we've already caught a couple of manufacturers out!

So what Dodo Juice products contain silicones? Well, it's best to divide them into HIGH, MEDIUM, LOW and NONE.

HIGH

Red Mist and Red Mist Tropical (pure silicone polymer sealant technology!)

MEDIUM

Blue Velvet PRO, Purple Haze PRO, Time to Dry (water soluble silicone though, so can be washed out of drying towels), Lime Prime, Lime Prime Lite

LOW

Dodo Juice waxes

NONE

Dodo Juice shampoos, Born Slippy clay lube, Mellow Yellow wheel cleaner


SUMMARY

Silicone content itself is immaterial. It is type and delivery that matters. And for Joe Normal, silicones are no issue unless your drying towel goes funny. A good bodyshop will prep a car properly. A bad one will whinge about silicones when it has been poorly wiped down and fish eyes have resulted. Bodyshops should know that virtually ALL mainstream car shampoos, polishes, waxes, dealer sealants and quick detail sprays will be swimming in silicone and need to fear the worst - the car is covered in silicone and needs THOROUGH PREP. This does take time, and it would be easier if people didn't put anything shiny or slippery on their car to make it look good and keep it clean, but that's car care for you. It's not a painter's best friend. Prep needs to be total and thorough. Panelwipe, IPA, whatever. And multiple passes thereof.

DOM'S GOLDEN RULES OF SILICONE FOR BODYSHOPS

- Stay away from sprays and aerosols near the booth (inc household furniture sprays, anything that shines/cleans)
- Assume all spray sealants and quick detailers contain silicone
- Assume any car you work with will be covered in them, and use a strong wipedown
- Don't assume 'bodyshop safe' means silicone free

DOM'S GOLDEN RULES OF SILICONE FOR PUNTERS

- Not all silicones are bad, you probably love them without realising
- Watch out for cloths or drying towels going water repellent, it could be oil based silicone that needs dry cleaning to remove
- If your car doesn't need painting in the near future, don't worry about them, just enjoy them
- Don't believe '100% natural' labels or silicone claims unless independently verified or substantiated... silicones sneak in everywhere
- If a shampoo or quick detailer adds shine it may be because you're buffing the silicones with the towel or cloth

top write up my good friend

WOW, i learned a lot then. I knew about silicones and fish eyes, however
i now know detailed reasons why.
As said above, Great write up.
Thanks dom.

Thanks guys. I will try and feed more info in to these 'myth and misinformation' posts and cover more topics, as I have the time.

Another few points re silicones:

1) there are LOTS OF THEM, not just one type... you can buy hundreds of varieties of silicone additive and all do something different in a slightly different way; saying 'silicone' is bad is like saying a 'dog' is bad, when many breeds exist. As I said earlier, good and bad ones exist for car care and bodyshop applications

2) dimethicone or PDMS (polydimethylsiloxane, from memory!) are probably the most common form of silicone - if you want to know how prevalent these ingredients are, take a look at your hair shampoo and conditioner bottle at home... you may find silicone is added for SHINE, ie to make your hair nice and glossy!!!

great bit of info there Dom thanks

so where would supernatural sit on your LOW/MEDIUM/HIGH levels of silicone content?

LOW

Most of the peformance comes from an increased carnauba ratio, but all our paste waxes will have a small amount of synthetic content - or a larger amount in the case of the pro waxes - to fortify the recipe and give it enhanced performance.

I'll probably demo a totally natural wax vs a fortified one at a product day next year, and show the difference. It's like running a Ferrari on 92 RON vs 108 RON race fuel.

You don't need a lot of synthetic ingredients to fortify waxes - we're talking a drop or two - but even the '100% NATURAL' products are likely to have some help, and it clearly shows on the IR Spectrometer. Two big names in the wax world have been caught out lying to customers by claiming 'no silicone' when their waxes have them in. We're just too polite to name and shame

Thanks for that Dom,very informative as always will definatly be interested in seeing a demo on the differences between 100% natural and natural ingredients+silicone.

As for companys bullsh1t1ng :roll: it really irritates me tbh its completely not neccasery, i understand they have to make there product/s sound appealing but it should be in an honest manner, people and companys/manufactures that talk sh1te i dont have time or the patients for.


thanks again Dom





Dan

Very informative write up,
this maybe a daft question but some interior products seem to attract more dust than others, is this due to the amount used in them? will some clay lubes contain them?

Scott is on the money.

Static is prevalent with microfibre cloths and also with silicone heavy products. Imagine rubbing the balloon against your jumper and imagining the transfer or ions that goes on with an MF cloth. It's an unfortunate side effect of using a very soft, very absorbent hi-tech material. Less soft, less absorbent materials like terry cotton will create less static, as will more natural lotions and dressings, but the results may not be as good. It is a simple case of 'swings and roundabouts' - ie you can't have your cake and eat it!

Thanks Dom that is very informative info thank you for the great explanation

No worries, Sal and LOL at Scoff, I mean, Scott.

can you see in the dark now scott?

interesting read, what are good and bad silicones, and how can you tell what products have what in?

'Good' and 'bad' silicones are just very loose terms I use for illustrative purposes. A good silicone in one product may be a bad product in another - eg a long lasting paint 'paste' sealant may have a very durable silicone in that is solvent based and this would be a good thing, but if that same silicone was used in a quick detailer it would clog drying towels if it was used as a drying aid, making them water repellent. Also, the older style of silicones were less sophisticated than the newer type and so these are more likely to be 'bad' - these had more 'bad' side effects compared to the more modern ones where you can tend to have your cake and eat it (say, a water based silicone that has the performance and durability of an oil one).

There is no easy way of identifying specific silicones for consumers, although IR gas spectometry can help identify silicone 'spikes'in products for chemists and manufacturers (the equipment costs that of a family saloon normally so not something you can easily have access to). You just have to see what the product does and be aware of silicones in general.

Very informative and well explained, nice one